Thank you in advance for helping. But on the other hand, if it plugs into your phone, then it is not a charger. The next method we wanted to cover is the possibility of a failure in the charging mechanism that might allow an overcharging situation. I have done some charge and discharge testing, and indeed almost all the charge that you put into it seems to come out on discharge. What does that mean? I have tested NiMh chargers from the same brand and they put put the voltage advertised. I noticed that the battery only outputs 9V max now, with charge dropping rapidly. hello sir Charge efficiency is about 99 percent and the cell remains cool during charge. 4.3v 250 Cycles 50% If you keep everything within the manufacturer’s specifications, it should perform as intended. For the Li ion batt I am speaking about a full re-charge requires 3,5 hours at 70 amps, 240 volts. A non-scientific way to test this, is to weigh your original OEM battery in grams, and compare it the weight of the ones you’re currently using. 3) Is it better if the voltage is lower than 4.2V dc for safety and other concern? I am a bit lost in how to calculate C. It doesn’t come into the formula or Watt = VI. For example if I were to use four cells each rated at 3500 mAh, I’d have C=14A, the current at which the battery pack would be depleted from full to empty in one hour. @Juan, the question to your question is “is it better for what?” Better for the longest long-term life of the battery? Additionally charging current would be very slow, at least two sunny days for recharge and much more without sunshine. I am seeking some safety information for these types of batteries. how can you trickle charge a 12v batt @ 2v trickle and get a full charge . I works well and I have tested it several times. Say discharge from 3.00V to 2.55V with a known current draw, for example 6 microamps? Most consumer orientated lithium ion batteries charge to a voltage of 4.2 volts per cell and this has a tolerance of around ± 50 mV per cell. When I wake up 4 to 5 hours later, the LED may have been steady-on for 4 hours. I have simply removed the 12 cell / 10.8 volt packs from each casing. So what’s the next best thing? Ie if I don’t do it now it’s too late. Even though the internal resistance of the battery is low, the voltage will still be elevated slightly compared to the actual voltage of the battery. Ideally on the bottom end how long can I let the voltage go before recharging without it causing long term damage? Looks like its a dud. Or is not good to charge with less power? I’m especially interested in detecting the lower threshold where discharging should be stopped. I’d be grateful for a quick response. The resistor is r2. Just having the screen on for an extended period of time at a higher brightness (tho air con I guess would bring it down but im from a cold environment) without even charging. As I know, PSP uses 5 volts power source. Thanks so much for the full mastery and comprehensive article… So I’m really confused. I have 44 Sinopoly 3.6 volt 200ah Lithium batteries that I have bought slight used, “less than 100 cycles” for an EV project. Mfr. If i’m using the laptop during the charging phase i not good? Do you think can be acceptable? They were fully charged about a year ago so they’ve been stable. The battery is 2400mAh li-ion. It fits the light battery. 2) The number of batteries needed to power 3 - servos. I am charging below this voltage at 3.44V and I see the cell voltages rise quickly initially then slowly up to 3.45 then suddenly to 3.65V when charging shuts off. It is not true; If you use your cell more than your son; then obviously it will last shorter. If i’m watching a movie , or play some games or surf web is better for battery to keep phone connected or not to charger ? IS IT POSSIBLE TO CHARGE A PACK OF SIX 1.2 LI-ION BATTERIES WITH THE ORIGANAL It keeps in standby mode nearly 1 year. CONFUSED since the charging current in Li-ion battery isn’t much critical factor as compared to Lead acid battery there is no major effect at all except the charging time. The original charger of that device is a 3P10-L1016. It depends on the charger; but if the output voltage of those 2 charges is more than 12.3 Volt, both are not safe to charge your 10.8v battery. I have a data logging voltmeter across the 170 volt series pack. I have a bike light battery which is labelled ‘Rechargable li-ion 7.4v’. Once the charge is terminated, the battery voltage begins to drop. Do you agree this is a good way to prolong battery life? They ware all discharged to cell voltages of .01 to 1.1 v. I charged them for 10 hrs at c/100 (Now I think c/10 would be OK) and 10% failed shorted. I doubt the charger is faulty as I have two identical chargers and both give 90% percentage readouts when the batteries are definitely flat. The indications are 1-blink series, 2-blink series, 3-blink series, and steady-on to indicate full charge. I have been talking to a lithium cell supplier who is willing to supply sufficient LIFePO4 120amp cells in 2 seperate and equal modules to provide nominally 42 volts each and a BMS for each, These modules are recommended to be wired in series only for 84 volts and that they stay that way. I mean, you can’t really hook a battery itself up to any of them. Any advice??? Each morning, I just swap the battery with the one that had been sitting on the slow charger all day the previous day and night. Figure 1 shows the voltage and current signature as lithium-ion passes through the stages for constant current and topping charge. Since a typical lithium ion cell has a nominal voltage of 3.7v, I would expect it to be at 50% capacity at that nominal 3.7v range. The ones I tested did take a charge though, and delivered close to their rated capacity. As the current being drawn by the charging device approaches the maximum the panel can provide, the voltage drops. But my Canon S90 camera’s manual states that “to store the battery for long periods, deplete and remove it from camera. I don’t see any way around that. I think u can make write this statement to your website, so everyone can read 1 more useful information about the USB adapter charger and inside the phone charger. Enjoy! Or does it plug into your phone? I have 30 x LiFe batteries at 60AH each - wired in series. “Hi, I just got a new 1600 mah 3.7V Li-ion battery for my phone (instead of the original 1200mah 3.7V). If you lower the voltage to 72, and charge with more current ( ie your charging the battery faster ) it will not last as many cycles, and also, will not reach full capacity. I recently bought a new 3,7V ,1650mAh samsung battery for mai GALAXY S , I’ll wait your answer before first battery use. I left out some important info. Take a voltage reading with your voltmeter. I am now wondering just how ‘authoritative’ this article really is if the author actually believes that the manufacturers are referring to temperature! They introduced new, fast charger with 10A, which shorten charging for 5h. Make sure that the old cells are actually Li-ion and not LifePO4. • Battery life varies by use and configuration. You work best somewhere in the middle. According to the chemistry (Li-Ion 3.6V) or to the nominal voltage (Li-Po 3.7V) In the firs case i’m afraid to charge the cells not completely, in the second case i’m afraid to overcharge the cells with the risk of fire. as i have a 3000mah battery, what % level of charge is left when it reads 3700mv? I guess I have to look at the voltage. ..tnx!!! The charger in the phone, on the other hand, while being powered by 5V and drawing up to 1A, most likely has monitoring circuitry, shutoff, and other smart sensing stuff. Li-ion batteries should be shipped with 40-60% charge. I think probably the best thing in this scenario is to put it on the slowest charger you can find, such as a computer’s USB port which is limited to 500 mA (0.5A). my charger specifications are output 5v, 700mA. Thank you ! Right now I’m eating a pizza, and soon I’ll decide I’m full. i bought a Chinese quad-copter phantom 5c from a local store.i charged the battery for 3 hrs but charge-full led never lit. Maybe it is a bit better with lower currents. With a typical 4.2v charger, once the cell is saturated at 4.2v, it simply won’t draw anything more. Does anyone know what would happen to a new 3000mah mobile battery that was stored in warehouse for 3 months at 1%? I was not aware of the need of a BMS when I started my project. Does it mean that a Li ion batt cannot use a trickle charge at all , anytime? I occasionally salvage discarded Li-ion laptop battery packs…disassembling them to harvest the 18650’s for personal r/c and flashlight use. Power capacity will be immense and provide crazy riding range while being well within the c rating for such cell chemistry. Would it be better to design the charger for 4.0 volt peak and charger the 4 cells in parallel? The battery is usually around 93.4°F and 4.066V while this is occurring. The higher the charge current is, the larger the rubber-band effect will be. I have had no failures though they have not been treated roughly. Given that my phone came with a 5.1V / 850mA ac adapter, would I be doing my phone a service if I instead used an adapter rated for 5 V / 550mA? I haven’t seen any info about charging efficiency for li-ion batteries either. does it highly affect cycle life? (At 3.7v nominal.) 1/19: Ankit: Charging to 100% and discharging to 1% is stressful to the battery, and will shorten the overall life of the battery, but it will (obviously) give the longest time before recharging is necessary. I am afraid that you can’t charge a 7.5V battery with only 6v solar panel. To Amkul: you mentioned before that ideally it be best to charge the battery when it reaches just below 3700mv and stop charging just after it reaches above (which is impractical of course). I don’t know of such an app, but I haven’t looked. The cut off amperage is 0.1 amp and during the charging the current will slowly drop off from lets say 6A to 0.1A, During the charging the amperage will reach 0.5 Amp for example at which point the amperage per cell will be 0.5A/12 cells = 0.41mA possibly for an hour or longer. Since the battery is nominally 375V, and it takes 240V to charge it, then the 240V (I assume AC) is powering a dedicated charger, not charging the battery itself. So what they try to do is keep a running total of how many milliamps were drawn over frequent small intervals. So if you’re fully charged, it’s best to unplug it regardless of what you’re doing, and if it drops to less than those numbers, plug it back in. These take TOO LONG to charge my cells. I have a limited power source available, so my question is, is there a down side to providing a low current during the constant current phase, like C/20 (other than longer charge time)? And yes, it’s find to have modern phones on while charging, so using your PC would be perfect. 2 - CHARGE THE BATTERY ONLY WHEN IT REACHS 60% OR 40% OF CHARGE. If no, then it is defective and they should fix it. 4.25 400 bat capacity 25% You mention a bike? The best suggestion I can give you is about your practice #3. I have a series of contraptions for charging my batteries. If you try to measure Alternating Current voltages when there is no Alternating Current, the readings you get will not be meaningful. I am using old 18650 cells from laptop computers hocked up in series to get 37.80 volts to run a 9 Led flush light. Hi, i have a Li-ion Battery, 3.7V, 700MAh , and i’d like to charge it. I would also like to brag of having had success restoring substantial capacity to the occasional cells that truly were worn. From what I can tell when the internal battery drops to 79% the Mod battery charges it back to 80%. If a 4.2 volt charging current is kept charging that battery, eventually heats and pressure will built up and explode the battery. But this is how most chargers are designed. (See. The problem is that when swapping the batteries Android Marshmallow always shows the same percentage for the new battery as for the old. what happens if you let a li-ion battery connected indefinitely at 4.0V? If I understand what I have read correctly, the following practices are better: most dynamo give an AC ourput, A continuous trickle charge would cause plating of metallic lithium and compromise safety. not charging and condition of the battery are good i have changed the battery with the similar one of my friend it was charging without any problem for your more information my laptop le z500 -45ip lenovo and the battery li-ion color black voltage 14.4v capacity 2200mAh thanks in advance, could you any one can tell about how the lithium ion battery full cell making ? Are any chargers able to determine “C” for individual cells? I thought you were trickle charging it at 4V. But 100mA for either of these batteries seems excessively low. Storing a battery for long peroids without depleting may shortern its life”. Seems to charge at a much faster rate, esepecially compared to the USB. 6/8 Richard: Good question. i think of hardware issue. the BATTERY IS 3.5 fully charged, a lithium ion battery. Another clarification that I think should be understood: The thing that plugs into the wall at one end and your phone at the other end is not really the charger. If you can, I would charge from 80%-20% to prolong the overall life of the battery. But after I wait a while and let things settle, I’ll have room again for a little more. Thanks! Is it advisable to get a low Amp rating such as 500mah, higher amp such as 1200mah or stick with the same 1000amp? I thought trying to measure AC from a DC signal will give you zero on the meter. If we ignore this difference for the purpose of simplicity, we can estimate the amount of time for full charge simply as either: Slower is always better for the longevity of the cell, though less convenient. • DO NOT fully discharge a lithium-ion battery! 3, no true; you are risking over-charging the battery at c/100 and more than 10 hours. It’s not truly dead. @Christian: For a 2400mAh, the 1C rate is 2.4A. Another question, if it’s alright: USB chargers have a rating of 5v. You need 8.35V, so you need a dc to dc booster with regulation,but charging the battery with variable current is fine. At last I fully understand what different charging ways are :D Thank you! The solution is just to stick the ‘dead’ battery on a cheap charger that always supplies a constant voltage supply and the battery soon comes back to life! (See BU-808b: What causes Li-ion to die?.) For instance I’ve been letting it hover around 40% by continually plugging and unplugging it. If this is the case, then you are trying to convert 12V DC into 120V AC which probably has an adapter to convert it back to DC, probably 24V DC. In this way it’s difficult charge the battery using the constant current/constant voltage method because i can’t control the charge current and i haven’t enough power from the solar panel. As mentioned in the article a voltage < 4.2 increases battery cycle life, shelf life, and reduces discharge capacity for the current cycle. Well written and very informative - just what i was looking for. I usually do not complete charge and discharge. If wired in series, two cells would produce a battery of 8.4 - 6.4 volts, rated I guess at 7.4. So in this case, I’m using zero charging cycles. When charging the battery up, I get a controller to put constant current into the battery, then when I sense 4.2v/cell, I get the controller to go into constant voltage (of 4.2) mode and the current will die away naturally till fully saturated? I am assuming that there is a concern that the 2 lithium ion modules will become out of balance with each other and risk fire and explosion, A consistent 84 volt system will not work in this car. Currently I have 2 52V 13.5ahr lithium ion battery packs for my bike that I switch in and out. THOUGHT EXPERIMENT ONLY! It contains 2 cells and is rated 25.34V 218Wh. So if you’re talking about a battery consisting of thousands of cells, and the battery has a nominal voltage a hundred times higher than that of any cell, I can’t imagine what you’re considering using 3.7-4.2v for. If you were just charging a single battery from empty, and you applied the charger and measured the voltage it would be low, and the current flowing into the battery would be high. I don’t think there’s such a thing as a 4.2V Li-Ion cell. When charging with usb and a cable that comes with your phone or is suitable for your phone your phone will charge until it reaches its maximum capacity My mobile battery is not working properly from last many days. However, their being charged only exacerbated the leakage problem, which they continued to do even after several charge/discharge cycles. There are inconsistent instructions in respective device-manuals around when they refer to MOBILE PHONES, BEARD TRIMMERS or LAWN TRIMMERS; just to mention a few devices. We are experiencing swelling batteries on 10% of the devices. I have *never* experienced any safety nor reliability issues to date. 2nd question, what % can I discharge this battery doun to without damaging the cells? Informative article but the voltage drop in stage 3 would indicate a cell in poor condition. Alot of info there, but here are some takes: This is because you can draw more current than the battery can provide for long. Hello, and kill the life of the battery. Some lower-cost consumer chargers may use the simplified “charge-and-run” method that charges a lithium-ion battery in one hour or less without going to the Stage 2 saturation charge. With batteries in series, other batteries that are not full can force current flow through the allready full batteries, which heats them up, and this is what causes the problem. i hope you can imagine the config. Great Job. How can a 3.7v charger charge a 3.2v battery to 4.2v if, when they reach the same voltage level (3.7v), it can no longer push said electrons around the battery? Does frequent charging pratice without being fully discharged affect bttery life span? Facinating stuff, although I doubt I will ever have the ambition to put it use. I am designing a charger circuit for the same configuration. It has an (incorporate) Standard battery, Li-Ion 1780 mAh. “Charging to 4.1 Volts will increase the cycle life but reduces the effective cell capacity by about 10%.”. My need is to extend the device battery life as much as possible and i will use a small solar cell. Will that effect the ability for the cells to reach a full charge. 3. @Dave, assuming that there’s nothing wrong with the camera itself, this normally indicates that the battery is at the end of its useful life for the camera. 2. thanks. I’d imagine that the size of the battery also factors in to it, so what’s considered a fast charging rate for a small battery might be a slow rate for a larger capacity battery. Since i saw the article said the battery cannot charge more than 4.2V. Hello, You could make two groups of 5 cells in series and 4 cells in series then connect the two groups in series and charge them separate with a (cheap) li-ion charger with balance charge capability. Kudos on the page, very informative. Michael, Indicating saturation charge has started. But when i check my phone by software such as “3utools” or similar…, i realize my phone (battery) has max voltage’s 4.47V when max capacity. the new battery reads (ds 852540) 3.7v 650mAh. Now here’s another thing to consider with extended batteries: The hone might pump a full normal battery’s worth of charge into it, and read “full”, even though the extended battery can actually hold much more. I just want to charge it enough to power up the laptop for a few minutes before I go to the trouble of replacing the dc jack. In other words, will impact just be charging time if mAh rating is incorrect? Thanks, please someone give correct info about using new lithium ion battery for the first time. About 5 years ago I purchased 40 nearly unused 18X65 cells in 2 cell packs with protect circuit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS2hGoJVmlA, Thanks Vince ! My main concern lies in using an adapter that was not bundled with my phone (though both adapters in question are Motorola branded). More importantly how do i tell? This shouldn’t cause any harm, except that it won’t charge the battery, and may even drain it. This article suggests there isn’t which is why I mention that there is a difference. You can charge with low current, but you shouldn’t float charge it. The wall cord provides 5v to the phone, and the charger inside the phone provides 4.2v to the battery. The problem you have must be with the flashlight itself. hello to all of you The old pack had six cheap Chinese 3000mAh 18650’S. An enterpreneor claiming, new technology can charge Lithium Ion Battery can charge eight times more life ???? Plz anyone tell that upto how much voltage I need to charge my cell and battery to get 95 to 100% capacity. Good chargers will shut down or current limit but cheap ones may overload and heat up to the point of meltdown. 11/2 Taxiarchis: 1) So long as the fast charge does not exceed 0.8C, it should not damage the battery. So I uninstalled it. What’s the bottom line? So going to only 4.0vdc on a charge but doing it on a fast charge and keeping your battery on full charge for vast amounts of time would be worse for the battery life expectancy than a modest amperage 4.2 volt charge rate. i brought a new battery sony lithium-ion NP-BG1, WHEN I BUY IT , IT WAS IN SLEEPING MOOD, i plugged the charger for charging, but it did not charge, so please suggest me what should i do…. (2.1A * 4.2V). Would a LiPo battery get damaged if after the switch from CC to CV, the CV (4.2V) is not terminated after battery is fully charged? On another note, thank you very much for a great article; it is an important reference source for me. A parasitic load confuses the charger by depressing the battery voltage and preventing the current in the saturation stage to drop low enough by drawing a leakage current. Our High School is building an electric three wheeler with solar cells to augment the power of our 11.2V, 60Ahr x 7 packs. keep it up @ Isidor. i am I am going thru charging and testing them and the BMS that came with them. is it 85% which is cut off capacity at 4.2 V/cell, or perhaps somewhere near 60% which is cut off capacity at 3.7 V/cell? Thanks. Second, while I don’t know if this is exactly your situation, the symptoms you describe sound consistent with a dead battery. So it won’t harm the battery or the charger circuit inside the phone. Worst case, your battery won’t get fully charged or won’t charge at all if 5V is too low for the charger circuit. 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